Last week the Articles 4 Kids was How Do Canyons Form? Since this was for kids, I purposefully avoided trying to go into too much detail and have to admit may have excluded some information that may have helped. We have received several comments, a couple of which are from a regular visitor to our site that needs all of our prayers as you will see in my responses below.
Those canyons that were carved out when Mt. St, Helens erupted and those 40ft. deep canyons in Texas…which can’t be called a canyon because it is so shallow – more like a gully (arroyo), were cut primarily out of SOFT sedimentary deposits not solid rock. If one was to buy into this theory, the Mississippi River would be like the Grand Canyon, due to the huge volume of water that flows during flood stage every year.
That is a very good point. If you read the scientific reports from biblical geologists, they will tell you that the breaching of the dam occurred before the layers of sediment in northern Arizona had a chance to fully form. Therefore, they would have been somewhat soft and pliable at the time, making it much easier for the wall of water that flowed through the area to cut out a large part of the Grand Canyon.
There is also the issue of cavitation to consider. Cavitation is caused when water moves over a surface and air bubbles form in the water. When the water and air bubbles move fast enough, the bubbles impact any hard surface and literally explode with a powerful force. Cavitation has been known to cut through steel, ships propellers, concrete and hardened bedrock. I recall reading of one instance where the emergency release of flood waters from one reservoir carved out 30-50 feet of solid bedrock in the matter of a few hours due to cavitation. They had to stop the flow of water before it undermined the bedrock supporting the dam. Think of the cavitation that would have taken place with the suddenly release of a lake that was 3-4 times the size of Lake Michigan.
From: Jack P.
If a “larg” lake overflowed it’s banks, its overflow would still have had to flow uphill. Ergo, no (documented) lake and no flood. (You can’t count Lake Mead since it was created by the Hoover Dam.) Cite me a couple of these Ph.D. geologists so that I may contact them about their dissertations.
These pitiful examples of small floods and floes created small canyons. The Grand Canyon is 277 miles long. Trying to invoke the “Genesis Flood” to explain the formation of the Grand Canyon is beyond insipidness. Where did these “geologists that believe in biblical creation” get their PHD’s, Oral Robert’s University? I would just love to peruse some their dissertations. I’ll bet they would have me rolling on the floor with laughter.
Jack, what can I say to all of your narrow-minded rantings that have appeared in the Comments of numerous articles on our site? It is obvious that you have a hatred and disdain for God, the Bible and Christianity. As I have told you before and will tell you again, I will continue to pray that one of these days the Holy Spirit will work in your heart to cause a perfect regeneration and then the plugs in your ears and scales over your eyes will fall away and you will finally see the truth. I ask our readers to pray for you as well.
As for your latest rantings, as I said above, this was an article written for kids, not a scientific dissertation. So I will take this moment to offer a more detailed explanation to your comments.
I do apologize in that I unintentionally left out the part that the breaching of the dam may have been in conjunction with a massive upheaval and rifting in the earth. If you have ever been to the Grand Canyon, you will notice that the North Rim averages about 500-900 feet higher in elevation than the South Rim. Other areas on the North Kaibab Plateau range even higher in elevation than the areas south of the Canyon. If you match the various rock layers between the north and south sides of the Canyon, you will notice that the layers on the north side are also at higher elevations than the corresponding layers to the south. Most secular and creationist geologist believe that the North Kaibab was created by a massive uplift of that side of the major fault line, which is why the North Kaibab is referred to as the Kaibab upwarp. Such a rift would have created a very deep canyon. If this all occurred within a timeframe that followed the Genesis Flood, the sediments would not have fully hardened and would easily have been eroded away by the breaching of the inland lake.
Many rivers and streams follow fault lines. You can trace a number of fault lines, especially in the western US, by following waterways. In central Arizona the Salt River System is a prime example. Tonto Creek and the Salt River empty into Roosevelt Lake, which is held back by Roosevelt Dam. They then flow down into Apache Lake held back by Horse Mesa Dam, followed downstream by Canyon Lake held back by Mormon Flat Dam and finally Saguaro Lake held back by Stewart Mountain Dam. This system of dams and lakes built along the Salt River are on active fault lines. Periodically over the years, Salt River Project, the company that manages the system, would have to drain one of the lakes to fill in the slippage gaps at the bottom and sides of the dam from where the faults have shifted a little at a time. Today, they are able to do this without emptying the lakes. When the lakes have been emptied, they reveal canyons over a hundred feet deep.
The same is true for the Colorado River and most of its tributaries that flow into and thru the Grand Canyon. If you look at a geologic map of the Canyon, you will quickly see that all of these waterways and side canyons follow active fault lines.
Another example of rapid canyon formation is the Grand Coulee area in the state of Washington. Grand Coulee is a 50 mile long canyon with a depth of 900 feet in places. Even secular geologists accept that it was cut out during the catastrophic Missoula Flood. That’s a lot of carving from one event and the Missoula Flood was small compared to the one that carved out the Grand Canyon, which from geologic evidence of shorelines of what some refer to Lake Hopi, was estimated to be about six times the volume of the Missoula Flood.
In reality, the Grand Canyon and other similar and smaller canyons are more readily explained through catastrophic geology than by the slow gradual uniformitarian geology that has insidiously infected good geological research over the past 200 years.
Interestingly you state that small floods and such catastrophic events cannot account for something as massive as the Grand Canyon, yet you seem to be entrenched in evolutionary uniformitarian geology that believe that the Colorado River, which in reality is NOT a large river, carved out the canyon a pebble at a time. Have you ever been in the Grand Canyon and seen the Colorado River? I have on several occasions. Explain to me how the tiny Colorado River could have cut such a massive canyon up to a several miles wide, along with all of its side canyons? Talk about blind faith!
I will also state that not all creationist geologists agree on the exact formation of the Grand Canyon. Some look to the collapse of Lake Hopi and others believe it could have been caused the cavitation and channelization processes of the receding Flood waters. They are all theories based upon years of study, experimentation and observed catastrophic canyon formations in recent times.
The geologists that you question the origin of their degrees, earned them from institutions including Penn State, Virginia Tech, University of Minnesota, University of Oklahoma, Colorado State University, University of Sydney, Harvard University, Babes-Bolyai’ University in Cluj, Romania, Aberystwyth University in Wales to name a few. Sorry to pop your Oral Roberts bubble, but these are all top ‘secular’ universities.
Before you continue to criticize the creationist interpretation of the Grand Canyon and similar geological features, I would strongly suggest you do some homework and read what they really say. Then if you still have some viable criticisms, feel free to express them, but until then, I would think you would want to refrain from showing ignorance on the subject and making yourself look more foolish than you already do.
About the Title: Using easy-to-understand illustrations and terms, geologist Tas Walker shows how the Genesis account of a worldwide Flood gives the best explanation for the rock layers that we see today. If you aren’t convinced now, you will be after hearing this talk! (High School-Adult)